I think of the qualities we have ascribed to God, all-powerful, all-knowing and all-good, and the simple question remains, why is the world so messed up? Why is there so much suffering? I often imagine what I would do if I had those same qualities and while the means are not always the same the result is; I would make the world a better place. It's that simple and there is no way around it. I don’t even need to be all-good to say I want to improve people’s lives here and now on this planet and if I had those powers I could make the world a much better place then it is now. But I don’t think that makes me that special I think almost anyone given those powers would change this current world for the better. But is there someone out there who will actually say that if they had the power to change things on the earth that they wouldn’t? Does anyone think this is the best the world can be? Use any justifications for God you want but just tell me that there is not a single person you would help yourself (feed, clothe, shelter, health) if you had the power to and then I will know for sure you would use God’s powers the same way he does.
How do I know I could do better? Because my ways are not God’s ways.
Your logic is so simplistic its laughable. Have you even given it a moment's thought that Religion could be wrong about the nature of God? That God exists despte Religion? Religions are man-made institutions and are institutions are anything but 'Godly'. Think for yourself about what the true nature of God could be. The evidence is all around you. All you have to do is know where and how to find it. This is something that should not be too difficult for any extremely intelligent free thinker.
ReplyDeleteSincerely,
former Atheist.
P.S., what is the provable, evidence based definition for intelligent design that would would be adequate to explain that a house is the result of intelligent design and a mouse is not?
ReplyDelete'Mind' cannot be used as part of the definition because it cannot be observed.
Good luck.
Glad to finally hear some feedback, even if it is anonymous. First I just want to say that I’m glad you’re laughing, laughter is good especially when talking about God.
ReplyDeleteWhile you bring up some great talking points for other conversations I have to say none of them have anything to do with what I wrote. The existence of God was not questioned in this little piece rather it was assumed. The piece is questioning God’s morality based on the world we see. It is not questioning his existence and “Religion” as you like to capitalize was not part of the conversation either. So while discussing intelligent design or the problems with Religion could be fun they again have nothing to do with what I wrote.
Now for you clearly God exists, I mean look at all the mice in the world right? That's fine, but what qualities does your God have? You said, “Think for yourself about what the true nature of God could be?” and you criticized Religion saying it was wrong about what the nature of God is yet you failed to define Religion’s view of the nature of God or explain the nature of your God. Basically I have no idea what you mean when you use the word God. I personally can think up a lot of different gods with a lot of different natures. Now if you say that you do not believe your God is all-powerful or all-good then yes that would directly affect my question. But if your God is all-powerful in some way then all you have done is ignored or avoided my question. It’s a simple question; if you had the power to, is there anything you would change about this world?
For me the answer is as simple as the question, yes there is and obviously I’m not even an extremely intelligent free thinker, so imagine what one of those would do.
Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteYour comment suggests that there is some kind of bias on the part of the evolutionist. First, most of us start out with the belief in a grand designer. It is only after taking a look at the world that we come to believe in evolution. When we amass all the scientific evidence we come to the conclusion that evolution is true. When I am confronted with a house and say it was designed I am appealing to past experiences of house construction and conclude inductively that the house was in fact built by a designer. It could be the case that house is an eternal entity placed on earth by the god Darth Lord which would mean it wouldn’t be any more designed than God. When a scientist says that evolution is true she appeals to evidence and her research to make that declaration. The scientist looks at the world and sees common descent, anatomical vestiges, transitional forms, biogeography, and DNA evidence and concludes that evolution is true. The problem is, from an evolutionist perspective, is the advocate of Intelligent Design seems to misinterpret or ignore this evidence.
You wrote:
'Mind' cannot be used as part of the definition because it cannot be observed.
This is a highly contentious claim because some philosophers are identity theorists about the mind and the brain which means they think the mind just is the brain, and we can certainly observe the brain.
Hi, Z - you've got some interesting discussions going on this week! I'd like to suggest that perhaps (as you hinted) God is not all-powerful or all-knowing. Perhaps God "created" us (in quotes because I'm a scientist) because God needs us to help accomplish his/her/its will? We all must work together, God included, to create this better world? Or perhaps God is not transcendent but only immanent - thus the universe takes on the aspects of a complete whole, not just the "good" but the "bad" and, mainly, the amoral?
ReplyDeleteSo let's all be practical... Zach you said yes, you would make the world different... so what would you do?
ReplyDeleteAnyone else is more than welcome to respond as well... What would you do differently if you were God??
i would download the whole truth about God the bible and everything about Godliness into everyones mind and tell them based on what you know make a choice to love me or not if you love me we can be together forever if not you will cease to exist. More over i would remake the earth and there would still be sex.but no hunger no pain no more death or disease or any other bad thing.I would also wipe every bad thing that has happed to them and every person that does not love me from their memory.i would then take away their evil tendencies of those that love me. and there would be plenty of fun things to do that you would never get bored. lots of good food to eat never get fat be in shape. and thats my take.
DeleteWell I'm definitely with you Kelly in viewing the universe as amoral but if there is a god then no he/she is not amoral. Basically while taking away some of God's power or knowledge can definitely get him/er off the hook in some ways it also makes him a being who no longer should be viewed as the center of morality and no longer deserves my submissive praise. Basically that god is fine he just becomes pointless to me. I don't need him/her to live a good life, which is really the point of all of this for me.
ReplyDeleteAngelina,
ReplyDeleteway to get practical and put me on the spot. :) The first two that always come to mind for me are natural disasters and disease. If I had the power of God I would not feel it necessary to have created a world with hurricans, typhoons, earthquakes and so on. Neither would I have created diseases like cancer, aids, small poxs, the plague etc. Those are two sources of pain and suffering that cannot be attributed to humanity so even if nothing else changed, changing those two things would change a lot.
any thoughts?
how would you define right and wrong? what if you were perfectly just and told them what not to do and they did it any way what would be the consequences of their actions or would you let it slide and go against your very nature. disobedience to God=death but because he loves us he provided his own sacrifice to us that we may not die but we must accept it to our account.man is corrupt and selfish and seeks to please himself.God said if you don't want me i will let you rule your self to prove a point. that you need me and when your about to destroy yourself i will intervene and stop you and take over.
Deletehmmm... interesting... and since I don't know crap about meterology, geology and weather patterns, I just have to wonder aloud.. are those natural disasters purposeful in any way? does the earth as it is made need to do those things? can you conceptualize practically a world where this did not occur? Since God didn't create the world that you see, then why do these things occur? I guess it's a question of purpose... is there a purpose for natural disaster or disease? immediately I answer no, becuase of how those things have affected me personally, but when I take a step back and think more... i say hmmm.. maybe they do have a purpose... i dunno...
ReplyDeleteyes those things serve a purpose but they a natural purpose in "the earth as it is made". Simply make the earth another way and we're go to go which of course I could do with God's power.
ReplyDeleteyou did say "God didn't create the world that you see" What? the story is he did. if God isn't the creator of the universe then yes this is conversation is all moot.
that is quite stupid what you have said
ReplyDeleteworld was perfect before you (humans) messed it up
gotta earn your way in heaven, not even the best of us will escape some form of punishment, everything comes back to everyone in the end. Think about it, if you had the power to create anything at will, would you give that creature whom you blessed with freewill infinite happiness if he were subordinate? Christians have no argument, there is only one God and we all return to Him.
ReplyDeleteOne life at a time Anonymous. Indeed it takes a high degree of faith to see a pediatric oncology unit and think oh yeah god exists. Or to think about War World II and that about 50 to 60 Million people died fighting it sure God exist. Oh and let us not forget the Holocaust another 6 million human beings gone. I choose based upon the preponderance of the evidence to agree with Kai in that evil or misfortune must be remedied if possible but not by hoping for Superman ie god to make it all better, but to work against it in this life and not the next one (which there is not)
ReplyDelete