Friday, September 10, 2010

Salman Rushdie-Imagine There's No Heaven


This is an essay by Salman Rushdie titled-Imagine There’s No Heaven: A Letter to the Six Billionth World Citizen, which can be found in the book The Portable Atheist ed. by Christopher Hitchens. Rushdie is truly a great writer and offers the valuable perspective of a person raised in the Muslim minority of India. But I will Rushdie speak for himself and add a few minor thoughts of my own at the end.

Christopher Hitchens introduces this essay saying:

Born a Muslim in the year that his Indian homeland was fatally sundered by religious partition and war, Salman Rushdie has achieved global renown for his novels and for the way in which they illuminate cross-cultural migrations. In 1989, the Ayatollah Khomeini publicly offered money in his own name to suborn his murder, adding the inducement of a ticket to paradise for anyone willing to take the bribe. Ever since, Rushdie has come to symbolize the defense of free expression and unfettered literary activity (it was his novel The Satanic Verses that was also the object of Khomeini’s mad rage) as well as the right of any person to apostatize from religion. In 1997, Rushdie contributed a letter to a UN-sponsored anthology, addressed to the six-billionth human child who was expected to be born that year. In consequence of Rushdie’s contribution, the ever-courageous Kofi Annan, who was at the time Secretary-General, withdrew his own introduction to the volume. Mr. Rushdie very handsomely agreed to update and expand his letter for this collection.


Dear Little Six Billionth Living Person,

As the newest member of a notoriously inquisitive species, it probably won’t be too long before you start asking the two sixty-four thousand dollar questions with which the other 5,999,999,999 of us have been wrestling for some time: How did we get here? And, now that we are here, how shall we live?

Oddly—as if six billion of us weren’t enough to be going on with—it will almost certainly be suggested to you that the answer to the question of origins requires you to believe in the existence of a further, invisible, ineffable Being “somewhere up there,” an omnipotent creator whom we poor limited creatures are unable even to perceive, much less to understand. That is, you will be strongly encouraged to imagine a heaven with a least one god in residence. This sky-god, it’s said, made the universe by churning its matter in a giant pot. Or he danced. Or he vomited Creation out of himself. Or he simply called it into being, and lo, it Was. In some of the more interesting creation stories, the single mighty sky-god is subdivided into many lesser forces—junior deities, avatars, gigantic metamorphic “ancestors” whose adventures create the landscape, or the whimsical, wanton, meddling, cruel pantheons of the great polytheisms, whose wild doings will convince you that the real engine of creation was lust: for infinite power, for too-easily-broken human bodies, for clouds of glory. But it’s only fair to add that there are also stories which offer the message that the primary creative impulse was, and is, love.

Many of these stories will strike you as extremely beautiful and, therefore, seductive. Unfortunately, however, you will not be required to make a purely literary response to them. Only the stories of “dead” religions can be appreciated for their beauty. Living religions require much more of you. So you will be told that belief in “your” stories and adherence to the rituals of worship that have grown up around them must become a vital part of your life in the crowded world. They will be called the heart of your culture, even of your individual identity. It is possible that they may, at some point, come to feel inescapable, not in the way that the truth is inescapable, but in the way that a jail is. They may at some point cease to feel like the texts in which human beings have tried to solve a great mystery, and feel, instead, like the pretexts for other properly anointed human beings to order you around. And it’s true that human history is full of the public oppression wrought by the charioteers of the gods. In the opinion of religious people, however, the private comfort that religion brings more than compensates for the evil done in its name.

As human knowledge has grown, it has also become plain that every religious story ever told about how we got here is quite simply wrong. This, finally, is what all religions have in common. They didn’t get it right. There was no celestial churning, no maker’s dance, no vomiting of galaxies, no snake or kangaroo ancestors, no Valhalla, no Olympus, no six-day conjuring trick followed by a day of rest. Wrong, wrong, wrong. But here’s something genuinely odd. The wrongness of the scared tales hasn’t lessened the zeal of the devout. If anything, the sheer out-of-step zaniness of religion leads the religious to insist ever more stridently on the importance of blind faith.

As a result of this faith, by the way, it has proved impossible in many parts of the world to prevent the human race’s numbers from swelling alarmingly. Blame the overcrowded planet at least partly on the misguidedness of the race’s spiritual guides. In your own lifetime, you may well witness the arrival of the nine billionth world citizen. If you’re Indian (and there’s a one-in-six chance that you are) you will be alive when, thanks to the failure of family planning schemes in that poor, God-ridden land, its population surges past China’s. And if too many people are being born as a result, in part, of religious strictures against birth control, then too many people are also dying because religious culture, by refusing to face the facts of human sexuality, also refuses to fight against the spread of sexually transmitted diseases.

There are those who say that the great wars of the new century will once again be wars of religion, jihads, and crusades, as they were in the Middle Ages. Even though, for years now, the air has been full of the battle-cries of the faithful as they turn their bodies into God’s bombs, and the screams of their victims too, I have not wanted to believe this theory, or not in the way most people mean it.

I have long argued that Samuel Huntington’s “clash of civilizations” theory is an oversimplification: that most Muslims have no interest in taking part in religious wars, that the divisions in the Muslim world run as deep as the things it has in common (just take a look at the Sunni-Shia conflict in Iraq if you doubt the truth of this). There’s very little resembling a common Islamic purpose to be found. Even after the non-Islamic Nato fought a war for the Muslim Kosovar Albanians, the Muslim world was slow in coming forward with much-needed humanitarian aid.

The real wars of religion, I have argued, are the wars religions unleash against ordinary citizens within their “sphere of influence.” They are wars of the godly against the largely defenseless: American fundamentalists against pro-choice doctors, Iranian mullahs against their country’s Jewish minority, the Taliban against the people of Afghanistan, Hindu fundamentalists in Bombay against that city’s increasingly fearful Muslims.

And the real wars of religion are also the wars religions unleash against unbelievers, whose unbearable unbelief is re-characterized as an offense, as a sufficient reason for their eradication.

But as time has passed I have been obliged to recognize a hard truth: that the mass of so-called ordinary Muslims seems to have bought into the paranoid fantasies of the extremists and seems to spend more of its energy in mobilizing against cartoonists, novelists, or the Pope than in condemning, disenfranchising, and expelling the fascistic murderers in their midst. If this silent majority allows a war to be waged in its name, then it does, finally, become complicit in that war.

So perhaps a war of religion is beginning, after all, because the worst of us are being allowed to dictate the agenda to the rest of us, and because the fanatics, who really mean business, are not being opposed strongly enough be “their own people.”

And if that is so, then the victors in such a war must not be the closed-minded, marching into battle with, as ever, God on their side. To choose unbelief is to choose mind over dogma, to trust in our humanity instead of all these dangerous divinities. So, how did we get here? Don’t look for the answer in “sacred” storybooks. Imperfect human knowledge may be a bumpy, pot-holed street, but it’s the only road to wisdom worth taking. Virgil, who believed that the apiarist Aristaeus could spontaneously generate new bees from the rotting carcass of a cow, was closer to a truth about origins than all the revered old books.

The ancient wisdoms are modern nonsenses. Live in your own time, use what we know, and as you grow up, perhaps the human race will finally grow up with you and put aside childish things.

As the song says, It’s easy if you try.

As for morality, the second great question—how to live? What is right action, and what wrong?—it comes down to your willingness to think for yourself. Only you can decide if you want to be handed down the law by priests and accept that good and evil are somehow external to ourselves. To my mind religion, even at its most sophisticated, essentially infantilizes our ethical selves by setting infallible moral Arbiters and irredeemably immoral Tempters above us: the eternal parents, good and bad, light and dark, of the supernatural realm.

How, then, are we to make ethical choices without a divine rulebook or judge? Is unbelief just the first step on the long slide into the brain-death of cultural relativism, according to which many unbearable things—female circumcision, to name just one—can be excused on culturally specific grounds, and the universality of human rights, too, can be ignored? (This last piece of moral unmaking finds supporters in some of the world’s most authoritarian regimes, and also, unnervingly, on the op-ed pages of the Daily Telegraphy.)

Well, no, it isn’t, but the reasons for saying so aren’t clear cut. Only hard-line ideology is clear cut. Freedom, which is the word I use for the secular-ethical position, is inevitable fuzzier. Yes, freedom is that space in which contradiction can reign; it is a never-ending debate. It is not in itself the answer to the question of morals but the conversation about that question.

And it is much more than mere relativism because it is not merely a never-ending talk-shop but a place in which choices are made, values defined and defended. Intellectual freedom, in European history, has mostly meant freedom from the restraints of the Church, not the state. This is the battle Voltaire was fighting, and it’s also what all six billion of us could do for ourselves, the revolution in which each of us could play our small, six-billionth part: once and for all, we could refuse to allow priests, and the fictions on whose behalf they claim to speak, to be the policemen of our liberties and behavior. Once and for all, we could put the stories back into the books, put the books back on the shelves, and see the world undogmatized and plain.

Imagine there’s no heaven, my dear Six Billionth, and at once the sky’s the limit.



My Thoughts
Rushdie’s observations ring very true to me though I know just from my own personal journey how horribly misguided they would have sounded not too long ago. But as one takes the time to study world history, religious theologies, ethics, literary criticism, and modern science it is hard not to see the strength of Rushdie’s critiques.

Rushdie believes that it is the internal conflict being battled within each of the “live religions” of today that often affects how each religion ultimately interacts with the rest of the world. And as is often the case it tends to be the extremist and fanatics that speak the loudest on behalf of their religions causing all others who share their name to be lumped in with them. I spent much of my youth trying to separate and explain my version of Christianity from Christian “fundamentalists.” Looking back it is scary to see how fundamental I was. But thankfully I was never the fanatic necessary to seek to gain power (by any means necessary) so as to dictate to the rest of the world how they must live, according to God of course. Whether for good or bad, it really is those people, which stand for a more modern, intelligent and respectful version of their religions who have to do the heavy lifting when it comes to protecting the rest of us from the twisted views and perverted goals of their extremists. Sadly unbelievers (really just believers of different things) will never be trusted enough to be truly listened to on matters of faith.

Fundamentalism is on the rise. When looking at what we know about the world and universe we live in today compared to just a hundred years ago the difference is staggering yet Rushdie fittingly notes, “But here’s something genuinely odd. The wrongness of the scared tales hasn’t lessened the zeal of the devout. If anything, the sheer out-of-step zaniness of religion leads the religious to insist ever more stridently on the importance of blind faith.” This concept of blind faith is truly interesting for I believe Rushdie is right, in light of human knowledge today, to call the faith it takes to maintain so many of the clearly false teachings of religion, blind. If one goes back in history faith was not nearly as blind as it is today because quite simply the faith that was taught and required of people matched up with what they knew of the world and how it worked. Biblical cosmology worked when the world was flat and the earth was the unmoving center of the universe. Biblical history provided a clear picture of the past because it was simply accepted as accurate. No analysis or dating of the texts mattered nor did historical records and information from non-biblical sources rather everything happened as the text said. Biblical laws and ethics were accepted as divine and therefore good before any concept of human rights and equality existed to challenge them. But as our knowledge has grown exposing more and more religious beliefs as fallacious faith had to become more extreme, more hardened and ultimately more blind. It really is an oddity worth noting; it takes more faith to be a religious believer today then it did previously in history. Modern faith must manipulate and ignore so much information that it truly must be “praised” as blind.

Tuesday, September 7, 2010

What Took God So Long?

I can't help but ask anyone who believes in any form of the Abrahamic God what took God so long to show up and do anything for humanity?

The earth is around 4.5 billion years old and human beings, in their current form, have been around at least 200,000 years but the God of Abraham (the God of the Jews, Christians and Muslims) doesn't show up until 4 or 5 thousand years ago. Abraham and his covenant with God is roughly 4,000 years ago, Moses supposedly the author of the Pentateuch is only 3500 years ago, Jesus who Christians claim is God who had to become a human to save us, doesn't bother to show up until only 2,000 years ago then finally Muhammad the seal of the prophets doesn't come onto the scene until about 1400 years ago. That's at least 195,000 years without the God of Abraham and even since then that God has been involved with far fewer people on this planet than have existed during that time. So if humanity is truly the crown of creation, made in the image of God whom God loves and wanted to be in a relationship with, where was God during all that time? Quite simply, what took so long?



Please know this isn't meant to be a rhetorical question. Any and all thoughts are welcome.

Saturday, September 4, 2010

A Friendly Exchange Concerning Cherry-Picking

I recently wrote a blog entry called "Cherry-Picking Sacred Texts: An Obvious Double Standard" (For those who have not read it check it out here ) Among those who read it I got one response from a friend of a friend whose name is Nate Sauve. We had a long exchange on Facebook over the course of a week that began with his response to my blog but then veered into various other topics. It was clear both of us spent time on our responses to one another. Nate was gracious and thoughtful and the exchanges never turned into angry diatribes or needless name calling. I found the exchange valuable and informative and so wanted to share it.

Nate Sauve
I've often thought about this myself, as I have come to learn the misogynistic aspects of Muslim teaching come from similar logical positions as the Christian idea that there are distinct roles for men and women. I've also wanted Muslims to acknowledge where their philosophical system breaks down, but been at ease with the paradox's of the Christian faith. Other than some of the largely misleading historical broad strokes and obviously the overall conclusion, I think the post raises good questions that more believers need to deal with more honestly.

Zach Dills
I want to thank you for taking the time to look at my piece and sharing your thoughts. I just had one question. You say there are "largely misleading historical broad strokes" used and I just wanted to ask you where you see that? I don't believe I spoke of any historical situations (specific or general) and in fact I intentionally sought not to, to avoid getting away from my main point so I was just curious what you saw that led you to say that? I ask because I'm always trying to be aware of my own generalizations and not make too many over blown proclamations in particular when it comes to history.

The only spot I can see is perhaps you are referring to Mark Twain's writing? In which case I agree he uses a few very broad stokes, particularly in the beginning of the piece when he speaks of what the Church taught for 1800 years, which I do not agree with though I think he was intentionally using a bit of hyperbole to make a point. Either way I love his writing and believe his specific examples concerning slavery and witchcraft are right on and even his broad strokes are not that misleading.

anyway thanks again for reading and providing feedback it's very helpful as I seek to be aware of my own biases and since I know that my own search for truth is not done.


Nate Sauve
Yeah, my beef is only with Twain, heh. Whereas the Catholic church position was that slavery was wrong in that it denied the humanity of Africans (officially in 1839)It was actually the broader Church that was at the forefront of the emancipation movement. (To be fair, there were denominational splits North v. South in every major denomination as there were many "establishment" churches that cowed to the economic interests of their parishioners.) I guess being a Southern boy he only saw the dark side. Interestingly, the Catholic Church came out against slavery long before Twain did.

With regard to Witches. There are today an estimated 700-800,000 self proclaimed witches (wiccans). Based on some pretty sketchy numbers at wikipedia and Adherents.com

Christian teaching is different from Muslim teaching in this regard (ie: we shouldn't kill them accordnig to some ancient code) whereas Islamic teaching seeks to implement sharia law wherever it can, Christians are expected to uphold the laws of the government that they live under. Romans 13. This distinction helps us understand which aspects of the OT were civil laws (for ancient Israel, not to be implemented today) and which provide timeless guidance. Helps, but doesn't make things perfectly clear as we then disagree on which laws fall into which category.

Thanks for making me think and reminding me of this lesson. Its some good reading.

Zach Dills
Thanks for the response Nate. This of course could turn into a whole other paper but I disagree with you about the church being at the forefront of the emancipation movement. Most of the headliners in the emancipation movement, while they believe in some form of the Christian God, get pushed out of their churches as a threat to clerical and biblical authority both in the North and the South and the emancipation movement becomes one that is heavily filled with those who become (somewhat out of necessity ) anti-authoritarian towards conservative Christian churches. Many important emancipation leaders get labeled as atheists or infidels (not in the current sense but just its literal meaning 'unfaithful') Plus at the end of the day the fact that it took over 1800 years for any Christians to stand up against slavery says more against the Church then it does for it. I agree with what Twain notes, the Church (Protestant and Catholic) only changes when it has too.

As far as Romans 13 goes after the 4th century and the fall of Rome the Church was the government. It made and enforced all the laws it wanted which included killing or punishing any seen threat to the Church (witch, Jew, homosexual, Sabbath breakers and many others) The idea that the Old Testament is an ancient code applicable only to Israel and not to today is again a fairly new development in history and only occurs after power is taken away from the Church by secular governments. The Church had it's own Sharia law but was forced to give it up so the terrible laws of the Old and New Testament stopped being used (not all of them) because they had to not because it wanted to or believe God no longer willed it.

Again this could go on for a long time but it is fun.

Oh one more thing. I was a Jewish Studies major for my undergrad and one thing that has always stuck with me and cut at me as a Christian and was an important part of leading me to ultimately reject the Church is the clear anti-Semitic tradition of the Christianity and the New Testament. I can say easily that Islam has always been better then Christianity when it came how they treated Jews and tolerated Judaism and generally speaking Muslims have been better about tolerating Christians than the other way around. Obviously a lot has changed in the past 100 to 200 years but I again I wouldn't give the Church a ton of credit for the positive changes.

thanks again

Nate Sauve
Zach, Can you provide more support for that first paragraph? As I look around it seems to me that the primary movers in the emancipation movement were deeply entrenched in mainline Northern Christianity, as well as those in the British movement. Harriot Beecher Stowe was from a long line of Prominent New England pastors including Lyman Beecher. Frederick Douglass taught Sunday School, The Second Great Awakening had a profound impact on the abolitionist movement. It was the evangelical church pushing this agenda forward in the North even as in the South the same denominations were fighting for the status quo. Which led to the denominational splits as I said before. Again I think it's financial motivation at the expense of the truth, which is (interestingly enough) the same thing that made the church so corrupt once it came to power in Constantine's day. I don't think the evil performed by the Catholic church of the Middle ages was application of Biblical teaching, but rather abuse of biblical teaching to retain and manipulate the poor for the sake of the powerful elite. I don't think the church has a unique claim to that human abuse of power. They just happened to be in power for a long time and got quite good at throwing their weight around.

Historically, slavery was weeded out of the Midieval church as a social institution, replaced by not too much better models of feudalism, which in turn is replaced by not much better models of today...especially internationally for the sake of cheap products in the US.

Anyway, the church in line with Paul's teaching went to feudalism with the belief that slavery of a fellow Christian was wrong, seeing as all questions that were considered were in the realm of Christendom at the time. It wasn't really until the colonialism of the European nations that the question of, "Is slavery justifiable?" was broached again. One way the Biblical mandates were worked around was by devaluing the ones to be enslaved, the "savages" were deemed less then human and the issue was effectively worked around. Primarily by those with financial incentives...

Again, this is my rendition of the history, of course it is through my rose colored glasses hoping to see the church for what it should have been, rather than what it always was. As I said, more support for that first paragraph would help me see that the establishment church pushed them out, or that the ones leading the charge were primarily of a more deistic bent than not.

one more thing. I did a paper on Luther and the Jews once. Basically, his early writings hit the note of "no wonder the Jews aren't converting, look at how the Catholics treat them.' Then when they didn't accept his understanding of the Gospel he began to rail against them and practice a form of anti semitism himself. It's sad how Germany had such a large population of Jews do to their overall tolerance (compared to European nations which performed inquisitions). This same tolerance provided Jews an opportunity to work and trade and flourish in Germany only to be violently reacted against by the humanistic world-view of the Nazi's, supported by Luther's angry and evil words and the Catholic church's silence. Thankfully there was the Bonhoeffer confessing church, true believers among the only ones standing against the atrocities of the powerful.

Zach Dills
Concerning the abolitionist movement it is important to see that it isn’t a unified movement and become divided into various groups. The two biggest dividing factors were first, the issue of gradual verses immediate emancipation and second, the role of women in the movement and women’s rights as a whole. The connection between abolitionism and early feminism is very important. Now concerning the two issues the greater number of orthodox evangelicals supported both gradual emancipation and a rejection of women’s individual rights while those that supported immediate emancipation along with women’s individual rights were considered radicals and often labeled as atheists or infedals, though very few of them were.

William Lloyd Garrison is one of the best and clearest examples of fighting for equality as we now think about it. He called not just for the emancipation of slaves but also equal social rights for the slaves and women, which was not supported by any of the orthodox evangelical abolitionists. Garrison was the founder and editor of the Liberator which he started in 1831. He was raised in an evangelical Baptist setting which rejected his views. More than most Garrison was in the Enlightenment tradition of Jefferson and Paine believing the bible should be judged by reason and science and not seen as literally true. He said, “Truth is older then any parchment.” He also rejected belief in miracles and the idea of ecclesiastical hierarchies. All these ideas (immediate emancipation, equal rights for women, and unorthodox religious views) led to him being rejected by evangelical churches as a whole.

Some other good examples are Lucretia Mott, Elizabeth Cady Stanton and Angelina and Sarah Grimke (usually referred to just as the Grimke sisters). The Grimke sisters began speaking in public against slavery in 1830. They were from South Carolina and spoke openly in both the North and South about the harsh treatment of slaves including rape. Soon they were drawing an audience that included both men and women, which was a huge deal at the time. And the more men came to listen to them the more of a threat they were seen to orthodox churches. In 1837 the Congregationalist churches of Massachusetts publicly condemned the sisters and circulated a letter instructing all the Congregationalist ministers in Massachusetts that the topic of slavery was not to be discussed in their churches and that it was against the Church to allow outside speakers into their churches.

Some clear ways the importance of the women’s rights issue displays itself can be seen in 1840 at the annual American Anti-Slavery Society meeting in New York (Garrison was a founding member) were Garrison appointed a woman, Abby Kelley, to the committee and several hundred members of the group called it a violation of scripture and walked out and stated their plans to form a different antislavery organization. Another example is at what was called the first “world” (really just the US and England) antislavery convention held in England where after listening to various male speakers it was voted that there was not to be any women delegates. Lucretia Mott and Elizabeth Cady Stanton had made the long journey from America to be there but were then denied any role in the convention. That turned out to be a key event that would later lead to the Seneca Falls Convention. So while Stanton, Mott and the Grimke sisters were all Christians (of different denominations) they all became very antiauthoritarian and attacked many of the orthodox Christian doctrines held in both the North and the South. Mott always believe in, “Truth for authority, not authority for truth.”

There is also the work of Robert Dale Owen, Frances Wright and Ernestine L. Rose. These activists actually labeled themselves as freethinkers and atheists. All of them fought for the immediate emancipation of slaves, women’s rights and even social equality. Rose believed all religious belief was a product of indoctrination rather then a natural impulse and was constantly berated for her views. Rose was Jewish so that alone led to her being attacked by all orthodox churches.

Now it is important to realize that this split between radical and conservative abolitionists only covers some Christians whereas the majority of them both in North and South did not support either type of abolitionism. There is a reason something is called the status quo, it’s because the majority of people support and accept it.

You brought up Lyman Beecher who, I believe, is the perfect example of how so many orthodox, evangelical churches were a detriment to the abolitionist movement. In the 1830s Beecher said openly that the most important moral issue facing America was not slavery or women’s rights but rather it was America’s general disregard for the Sabbath. He said the Sabbath was, “the great sun of the moral world”. In 1828 Beecher founded the General Union for the Promotion of the Christian Sabbath (GUPCS). His main goal was to end postal services on Sundays. He had further hopes of adding more restrictions on the Sabbath and I would point out all these ideas came from the “Old” Testament laws that they believed should still be applied in many areas. Further in many of his speeches he attacked antislavery, women’s rights and labor reform advocates saying that their disregard of the Sabbath would lead to the downfall of America. He labeled many who disagreed with him as atheists and infidels. He is an important example because he was and still is considered one of the most important ministers of the 19th century.

Please know I am not pretending to know everything about this topic, people write whole books about this stuff and things can never be obvious or clear once historians are trying to examine people’s personal beliefs or motives still I have written papers supporting the churches involvement in the abolitionist and women’s movements but I have since changed my mind based on my continued studies. A book I really enjoy and actually am currently finishing is called “Freethinkers: A History of American Secularism” by Susan Jacoby. Most of the examples I used came from this book since it was the freshest in my head.

Now the more important thing I would want to say is that it doesn’t really matter if we end up agreeing about the abolitionist movement or any other historical issue we’ve touched on because what our discussion has shown is how any attempt to “disprove” Christianity using individual historical examples or certain bible verses will be met by a strong, often well-thought out argument by most Christians defending their faith through the use of certain kinds of biblical interpretation, theological ideas and historical points of view. But I would then point out that based on the way you are defending both Christianity’s scriptures and history that a Muslim could do exactly the same thing. A Muslim could explain to us how we do not understand the true meaning of the Quran, how certain verses are more important then others and that various events in history cannot disprove Islam because many self proclaimed Muslims simply did not understand what it meant to be a true Muslim.

The problem I see in both cases is the methodology. The believer begins with the conclusion (my beliefs are true) and then finds the evidence it needs to support it. Like in our discussion you used the Catholic Church as a positive example for Christianity when it rejected slavery in 1839 but then when the Catholic Church’s obvious moral failings in the middle ages were discussed the Church had to be described as a corrupted version of Christianity that misused the bible and therefore rejected as evidence that can be used against Christianity. Another example would be viewing the Christian abolitionists as fighting for God’s true will as opposed to those Christians who supported slavery. Basically when the evidence is good for proving the already determined conclusion it its accepted while any evidence that argues against the already determined conclusion it is rejected or explained away. But often once a believer (Christian, Muslim, etc) moves from defending their position to examining and attacking another system they change their methodology trying to use the evidence to lead to the conclusion. They then accuse the believers of the system they are arguing against of being blind to obvious contradictions in their scriptures, theologies and versions of history. Anyone who calls themselves a Muslim and does something bad becomes evidence for a Christian who then scoffs at any attempt to explain away or reinterpret this person’s actions but then once the tables are turned and people who call themselves Christians do evil things they are judged, usually by those later in history, as not being true Christians or misunderstanding what the bible really means.

Basically this all goes back to my critique against those who cherry pick from another religion’s sacred texts, philosophies or histories to try and disprove them. Now while I hate cherry picking I do believe one should allow the evidence to lead to the conclusions and so I support the scientific method over what I see as the self-affirming methods of each religion.

Okay I’ve been going on way to long so I’ll stop. I really meant for this to be shorter but I really do love history so once I get going I tend to be long winded.

Nate Sauve
Hey Zach, I was away for the weekend, so return apologies for the delay.

With regard to the second post, that's exactly what I said I appreciated about your post. And I guess it was only twain that I disagreed with so thank you and no thanks to Mr Twain. I spent a year reading the Qu'ran, attending Surah Studies and talking with some very devout Muslims and saw how they and we tend to do the same thing, take the good explain away the bad. (I don't think this is only a problem for religious communities). I still talk with a few muslim friends but not in the same probing, challenging way as those people have moved on from Chicago. In that year I was challenged in my thinking and changed. I think we all need to have those interactions to keep us honest and truly seeking rather than just blindly defending ideology.

With regard to the abolitionist movements ties to the women's rights movement they are also very closely tied to the temperance movement...

Regardless, I think you are making some distinctions that are hard to condemn people for. The thing about gradual and immediate emancipation being distinct movements doesn't recognize that philosophically they believed slavery was wrong, blacks were people and they deserved equal rights. They said there is a problem and we need to do something about it. The disagreement was on tactics and what the remedy should be. That might piss you off. and I think looking back it definitely pisses people off. Now here is where that part about slave's rights and women's rights issues come into play. In the women's rights movement there was a split in the movement as well. The AWSA and NWSA, the reason for the split was that some felt that they should insist upon adding the right for women to vote to the 15th amendment and other felt it would jeopardize the chance of the newly freed slaves to win the right to vote, so they decided to take a more gradual approach. Same endgame, different tactics. Will people years from now decry our lack of involvement in freeing the 27 million slaves worldwide? (only 13 million at the height of the African Slave trade) Will they condemn our ability to avoid demanding the end to human rights abuses in the Middle East, Southeast Asia and Sub Saharan Africa, in this new global economy? Probably.

Or if not a different critique will be heard, ones coming from the emergent cultures of India and China, as Europe and the USA fade into the sunset. The claims of a new western imperialism raised by non-western voices already condemns the secularizing and humanistic ideology stemming from Europe and America, but we don't hear. Daniel Jeyaraj in his Article "Can Edinburgh 1910 speak? A voice from the silent majority" says this: A vast majority of Euro-American people remain indifferent and therefore ignorant of multi-cultural and multi-religious realities of there neighborhoods, some of them do not even know the difference between Buddhism and Hinduism....They naively believe that religions are the sole causes of brutal wars....Therefore they seek to promote a-religious societies and realize they don't make any remarkable headway. Their anti-religious or a-religious persuasions do not commend them among people for whom religion cements the very fabric of their existence."

His main point is America and Europe are still playing the same game, always imposing what is right and good on the rest of the world, and take advantage of countries that can't stand up to us.

Zach Dills
Nate thanks again. I really liked hearing about some of your background with Quranic and Surah studies and of course just talking to Muslims. I love listening to people who have done things like that. Please know even as we have been exchanging ideas I've appreciated your honesty but also kindness with which you speak. These are obviously emotional issues for many of us and can lead to a lot of sharpness but I appreciate that it hasn't with you.

As far as the US history stuff goes I will continue to stand opposite of you on that. I believe the distinctions I made (the historians I have read made) could in fact be taken further. If we look at the wonderful Mr. Beecher again he said that if everyone would stop arousing public passions on the slavery question, white Christian benevolence would ensure that the system would disappear of its own accord--in another two centuries. How benevolent of him. Clearly that is towards one extreme but that's a distinction worth making to me. And again there is a huge difference between blacks are people and so slavery should end and blacks are people and so deserve equal rights. There is a reason the civil right movement happened in the 1960s and not the 1860s it's because clearly most people did not believe blacks deserved equal rights. And with the women's rights movement I am aware of the split over the 15 Amendment and I would say that your are right that they had different tactics but again disagree that they had the same endgame. One's endgame was for both women and men , black and white to vote the others was to ensure that black men got a vote. The 15th amendment was ratified in 1870 and it wasn't until 1920 when the 19th comes along and gives women the right to vote. Again the gradualists are well behind those calling for immediate rights. But again I don't expect us to agree on that and that's okay. To me more often then not conservative religion serves to maintain and even strengthen the social evil of its day (slavery, women's oppression, labor oppression, segregation and racism, etc) because they are the status quo and in general religion is not a big fan of change.

I definitely do not believe America will last forever and I do hope that people in the future will have made social progress and be able to look back at us and laugh at our small mindedness the way we do to so many who came before us. I just hope they don't continue to whitewash religions involvement in creating that small mindedness in the first place.

And at least in America, definitely not Europe, I see more hostility towards those who are anti-religious or a-religious then the other way around. We are God's country and so of course we like to tell other people what to do.

anyway thanks again. I'll probably call this quits for me but please share any more thoughts you have.

Nate Sauve
Zach, it's probably good that we are writing so that my tone can be free of the emotion that does come along in some of these conversations. For some people it's easier to spew hate online. For me, writing is a chance to think before I speak.

I remember one conversation with some of the Muslim brothers. Someone who was listening in asked why all of these guys were so mad and kept yelling at me. I was able to say, that I'm fine with it, I've done the same and that we are all passionate about what we believe and that passion is going to come out, but at the end of the day we care about each other more than simply being "right" and winning an argument.

Yeah, Beecher's gradual tactic put into an actual timeframe is a problem for me.

one thing about the women's rights split. Both were in favor of the right to vote being made available to men and women, one group just saw the right for black men to vote as a winnable victory at the time and didn't want to risk that victory by adding another obstacle. I don't see it as a bad choice, but rather as one that was self sacrificial to see one injustice overturned "now" rather than both being addressed at some unknown point in the future. Had they not acted at that time, would it have taken until 1920? 1960? Who knows...

And I agree that the church (or any organization with substantial power) fights against helpful social change. See gov't. The church should be an agent of change, but here in the states and throughout this history of "Christendom" it's interests have gotten too tied into politics and power.

Skeptical Wonder



One thing I have learned about the scientific method is that when a person makes a hypothesis it is supposed to be worded in way in which it can be proven wrong. Any hypothesis that cannot be proven wrong is in fact not a real hypothesis. I would go on to say that any “hypothesis” made that cannot be disproven is more likely an attempt to protect an unexamined often comforting preexisting belief with the more reliable words of science.

I am not a scientist but as I study science more I find that the thing I admire most about the scientific quest for knowledge is that it is self-correcting. Any truth claim must undergo rigorous testing and examination both by those who believe it and those who do not believe it and ultimately no matter how long a belief is held to be true it always remains open to further scrutiny and investigation. And the scientists themselves encourage and value this never ending process because it is in fact what undergirds the entire scientific system, inquiry relying on testing and demanding evidence.

God is mysterious I am often told. His ways are not our ways. Scripture tells me that the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God (1 Cor. 3:19) therefore I should trust in God and lean not on my own understanding. (Prov. 3:5) Trust is submission to God and this is often expressed through worship. God demands veneration. I find this problematic for while I believe that the mysterious can and should generate awe in those who see it, it does not deserve reverence rather it requires inquiry. Similarly truth claims, especially those that have been “revealed”, call not for blind acceptance but rather skepticism. Skepticism and inquiry are two foundational pillars in science’s search for truth whose value cannot be overstated. It is skepticism that drives the human pursuit for knowledge forward and it is inquiry that is the tool used to unearth that knowledge. The skeptic, no different than the believer, can maintain a sense of wonder at the world around them the difference is that the skeptic’s wonder drives her on her quest for understanding whereas the believer’s wonder makes her comfortable without it.

Unfortunately, or perhaps fortunately, skepticism comes with a high price it costs one the safe innocence that can make the mind so comfortable and life so easy to understand. Skepticism can’t make you feel warm inside, it can’t fulfill all our emotional desires nor can it or offer the promise of eternal life instead it can only promise you that after all your hard work, long nights, constant confusion and numerous worries you will know more about the world then when you began and yet be in greater wonder then before.

Trust in yourself and lean not on the Lord’s understandings, in all your ways inquiry Him and you will make your paths straight. (Prov. 3:5-6?)

Thursday, September 2, 2010

My Drama Class's Script-Save Our Earth



So one of the extra classes I have been assigned to teach is a drama class. I did it last semester and must do it again this semester. The plays are fairly short but very hard to get the kids ready to do. One of the funny things is that the first script they hand me is just filled with odd errors that I have to correct on the fly. So I decided to go ahead and type up the script and share it. This is the script as it was handed to me before I've corrected anything. So all the wording, punctuation and of course the plot development itself is theirs not mine. I wanted to share this cause I thought it would be funny. Now be warned it's BAD.

The play is called Save Our Earth!

And the Characters are: Son O-Gong (Monkey), Sa O-Jung (Monster), Jeo Pal-Gye (Pig), Sam Jang (Monk, Marrator, Baby Bear (BB), Mom Bear (MB), Contaminator

Scene 1: In the Artic on an iced mountain

Narrator: Here, now I’m in the Artic iced mountain. Uh?? What’s this noisy sound? I see! There comes naughty boy! Son O-Gong.
(In front of the iced mountain, entering noisily riding quick board here and there, sometimes hopping and coming back and forth making fuss.)

O-Gong: Hi. I’m a genius. Son, O-Gong. Who can beat me? Nobody hahaha!

Narrator: Look over there. There comes O-Gong’s friends.

O-Jung: (Making a cracking sound and coming in front of the stage)
Hi. I’m a water monster Sa, O-Jung.

Pal-Gye: Hey monkey! Trouble maker!

O-Gong: What? What did you say? Stupid pig man!

Pal-Gye: What? Silly monkey! (glaring at each other)

O-Jung: Please do not fight---(opening his mouth big)

Sam Jang: Little monkey! Stop making trouble please…

O-Gong: (annoyed and trying to take off his helmet)
That’s why you should let me take off this cruel helmet?
If you let me take it off, I’ll stop.

O-Jung: No way! You have been wearing that helmet for a century.

Pal-Gye: (nodding his head) Yes and you should wear it another century.

O-Gong: (grabs his fist) What? You stupid pig!

Sam Jung: (reading a spell)

O-Gong: (the helmet gets tighter) Ah!!!!!! Stop! Please stop!

(Mommy polar bear and her baby walking weakly hand in hand. Everyone looking at the bear mom and daughter and Mon Sam Jang also look at them and stop the spell. So now Son O-Gong’s head is not hurt)

Narrator: Look! Here comes a mom polar bear and the baby bear. But why do they look so weak> Oh! Thank to the Monk Sam Jang who has stopped his spell, O-Gong’s head does not hurt anymore.

Baby Bear (BB): (pointing the monkey) Monkey.
(pointing the pig) Piggy.
(pointing the monster) What’s that?

O-Jung: (to the baby bear) Who are you little beart?

Mother Bear (MB): (welcoming the Monk) You are…Monk?

Sam Jang: (clapping) Yes, I’m…

MB: (kneeing and crying) Please, save us…we are starving.

BB: Mom! I’m so hungry…(fall down with thump sound)

Sam Jang: Baby!

O-Jung: Oh-no. What should we do?

O-Gong: Why? What happened?

Pal-Gye: (To the mom bear) What on earth, happened to you guys?

MB: (hugging the baby bear) All the glaciers have been melted. It’s already been two months since we hunted for some food. He is almost exhausted because he was drawn into the growing ocean. I’ll be done soon.

O-Jung: (patting the baby bear) What a poor baby!

Sam Jang: Do any other bears have the same problem?

MB: Yes they do. We could be extinct in a few years.
It’s terrible.

Pal-Gye: That’s very simple to fix hahaha. Why don’t we just refreeze the glaciers?

O-Gong: What? You stupid pig! How could we refreeze them?
(goes to the corner and trys to take of his helmet)
Anyway, I want to be free from this helmet.

Sam Jang: (Looking at O-Gong) O-Gong, I think it’s your job to help them.
O-Gong: (Looking at the monk)

Pal-Gye: (Jumping up and losing his temper) No way!! That’s impossible. You know he is a trouble maker. He will ruin everything!

O-Gong: Shut your mouth! You stupid pig! I’m so much better than you, but I won’t do it.

O-Jung: (Going to O-Gong and punching him with his hammer two times)
Help! You have to help them!

MB/BB: Please,,,, please Help us please.

O-Gong: Why me?

Sam Jang: I’ll let you out of the helmet if you succeed.

O-Gong: (Standing up surprisingly) Are you serious?
I’ve been dreaming of this for 100 years. I’ll be free if I take off the helmet!

Pal-Gye: Oh! No---I hate that monkey!!!

Sam Jang: O-Gong! Will you help them?

O-Gong: Yes. I’ll help them!

Narrator: What a surprise! What happened to O-Gong?
Can he actually succeed at this job?

BB: (Pointing at the sky) Take a look, over there…

All: (Looking at the sky) What’s that hole in the sky?

Sam Jang: Maybe the glacier is melting because of that hole.

Pal-Gye: (Tilting) Why? What do you mean?

O-Gong: (Teasing Pal-Gye taking tongue out) What a stupid pig!
(To O-Jung) Let’s go!

O-Jung: (leaving the stage following O-Gong)

Pal-Gye: Hey, silly monkey!! Wait for me! (following)

(Monk taking Mom bear and baby bear off the stage)

Scene 2: Near Ozone Layer

Narrator: Everyone-Look at them. Oh-terrible. Hi is the criminal who destroy the Ozone layer!
Let’s watch what he is dong now to the earth.

(Contaminator standing with double-folded Ozone layer and armed with bubble gun on his shoulder)

Contaminator: There is more Freon gas than yesterday.
(laughing) There will be lots of holes in the Ozone layer in 3 years!

O-Gong: You can’t do that as long as I’m here!

(Monster hits Contaminator and hides behind the monkey)

Contaminator: Who the heck are you?

O-Gong: Don’t you know us? We’re the..! (looking at the monster)

O-Jung: Heroes to beat you bastard.---

Contaminator: Did you just say I’m a bastard?

O-Gong: Yes, you are! Do you think you are not?

O-Jung: (looking the Ozone hole) Look at this!!

O-Gong: The holes let the sunshine pass through to the earth and that’s why the glaciers have melted.

Contaminator: I just help humans pollute the environment.

O-Gong: Don’t you know that’s still wrong?
O-Jung, hit him with your hammer!!

O-Jung: (running)

Contaminator: (Shoot the bubble gun)

O-Jung: (bursting bubbles like kids) What’s this?
(falls down suddenly)

O-Gong: Sa-O-Jung What’s happening?

Contaminator: Hahaha…these are poisonous Bubbles!!!
If you don’t want to be like him, freeze there-!

(E) Bang! (canon shooting sound)

Contaminator: (looking with surprise)

Pal-Gye: (Appearing with a cannon on his shoulder)
Freeze, you guy!

O-Gong: (Happily) Jeo Pal-Gye!!

Contaminator: Who is the silly pig?

Pal-Gye: What? Pig? Monkey, I don’t like you! But I hate that guy even more!
O-Gong: Does that mean you are willing to help us?

Pal-Gye: Let’s try! (grabbing both hands high each other)

(O-Gong and Pal-Gye holding hands up together. Pal-Gye is walking toward the Contaminator, aiming his cannon gun at him)

Pal-Gye: Put your gun down!

Contaminator: (putting the gun down) What will you do to me?
O-Gong: Do you want to live?

Contaminator: (kneeling down) Yes. Please…Help me………

O-Jung: (Stand up and hit the captain with the hammer)
Hey------------------you bad guy.

O-Gong: You need to go clean up the environment, Pal-Gye.

Pal-Gye: (Try to shoot the cannon)

Sam Jang: Stop it!

All: (Everyone is starting at him)

Sam Jang: (Counting his beads) What are you going to do to him?

O-Gong: We have to kill him! So, you will take my helmet off!

Sam Jang: I said, you should solve the problem not kill him.

Pal-Gye: But if we save him now he’ll do that again!

O-Jung: And more bears will die everyday.

Sam Jang: It’s not only him who made the holes.
Every human on this earth polluted it. Come here.
(MB and BB are coming)

MB: (Approaching to the Contaminator and standing him up)
Please save us!! Please--!!

BB: (Holding his tummy) My mom and I are starving now.
We can’t live any longer if all the ice is melted.
MB: Not only us, everyone will die if you don’t stop this right now!
(Toward the Contaminator) Including you!!!

Contaminator: Everyone will die? Then, will I die? Really? No way!
Then we should save the earth together!
I’m in! I’ll help you guys.

MB: Thank you! Thank you so much!! We appreciate that!

BB/O-Jung: Wow that’s great!

O-Gong: Then will you take off this helmet?

Narrator: As soon as O-Gong begged for it, the monk read the spell.
Will Son O-Gong return back to his free life?

Sam Jang: (smiling) Now, take off the helmet.

O-Gong: (Taking off his helmet) Wow so cool!

Pal-Gye: Sir. What about me? Is there any prize for me?

Sam Jang: Yes. Not only O-Gong but also everyone saved the earth together! Let’s throw a party.

(Song: They have a party with song about saving the earth. They hold a picket about saving the earth)

-The end-