tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-935639699252343081.post761321606227030908..comments2023-11-05T03:56:30.685-08:00Comments on The Worrywart: Pride and Humility-Means and EndsUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-935639699252343081.post-17178366713413088642010-03-18T02:15:28.801-07:002010-03-18T02:15:28.801-07:00Indeed! Anyone (any religious tradition, etc) who ...Indeed! Anyone (any religious tradition, etc) who teaches that you must purge yourself of doubt is hindering, not helping, your spiritual journey.nuclear.kellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18218956177203199577noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-935639699252343081.post-73300276546141330202010-03-18T00:06:34.102-07:002010-03-18T00:06:34.102-07:00I think we are on the same page.
I agree with you...I think we are on the same page.<br /><br />I agree with you and the Orthodox Church that faith and doubt can and should be used together. But sadly I believe more often then not they are not used together. I believe most pastors/priests and churches discourage doubt and show the two (faith/doubt) as incompatible opposites battling for your soul as opposed to needed partners in one's spiritual journey.<br /><br />As always I love reading your thoughts. Keep 'em comingAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10155314394083789255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-935639699252343081.post-64179866141268234832010-03-17T07:00:55.185-07:002010-03-17T07:00:55.185-07:00There's an interesting tradition that has last...There's an interesting tradition that has lasted from some of the early church fathers (in the Eastern Orthodox denomination) regarding faith - they consider doubt to be an integral part of faith. Faith and doubt are meant to be constantly fighting and feeding each other, weakening where need be and strengthening where need be. Faith is not absolute; it is growth.<br />As for the pride which you and I agree is "evil," the pride which Maher condemns, it is essentially the same as the pride it claims not to be. You've made a very good point as to the pride containing this sense of self-importance, and "religious" pride (the "I know what happens after death and I know the Bible is God's word" and so on) certainly contains this. It's more dangerous in that the pride is masked as humility - you think you are being prideful of God's wisdom and not your own, when in reality you are merely being prideful of your own "wisdom" regarding God's wisdom. Slippery slope, that is.nuclear.kellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18218956177203199577noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-935639699252343081.post-23284054510528735512010-03-16T20:55:04.194-07:002010-03-16T20:55:04.194-07:00The line between pride and humility is definitely ...The line between pride and humility is definitely precarious. I do like the Bill Maher quote but understand and share your distaste for where he takes it. In my piece I tried to be careful to use my own story and comment upon it. My story is by no means authoritative or the only way things work out for those in the Christian tradition. So I hope I did not come off as Bill Maher did with an arrogant certainty in my own truth. <br /><br />I guess a good question become is it possible to hold on to one's faith/religion and doubt at the same time? Does religion have to lead to unquestioned certainty? If religion leads to unquestioned certainty then I do believe humility easily becomes lost and the potential for danger increases. That is were Maher might have a point. The certainty it takes to kill (not die) for a religious belief is a prideful certainty and I gladly speak out against and label it for what it is vile, idiotic and morally abhorrent.<br /><br />As far as the word pride itself it clearly has many layers. Being proud of others certainly is nothing like having pride in the religious sense. Off the top of my head I don't know exactly how I would describe the difference but I know it is there. The pride against which I think we must struggle against seems to have a certain level of self-importance and smugness that is not associated with pride in terms of supporting another person...or hockey team. :) But that is all I can think of right now. What do you think?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10155314394083789255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-935639699252343081.post-84346907150874151062010-03-16T08:28:59.391-07:002010-03-16T08:28:59.391-07:00It's fascinating to go back and look at these ...It's fascinating to go back and look at these things side by side sometimes. One of the pieces in Bill Maher's "Religulous" that I most loved and most hated:<br /><br />Five minutes from the end of the film, Maher quotes, "There is only one reasonable standpoint. It is not the arrogant certainty of religion, but doubt. Doubt is inherently humble." This is an amazing gem of genius. He's right, and he's more right that he is probably even aware. Continuing, however, Maher then authoritatively tells his audience to grow up and "give up" religion before we destroy each other and ourselves. His doubt - that virtue which, for one brief, shining and glorious moment, he understood to mean that he didn't understand - had transformed into an ugly arrogance, the very kind he was defaming.<br /><br />It's a very similar story to your 'prideful humility' vs 'humble pride,' I think.<br /><br />On a slightly different note, I've always wondered about how pride came to be categorized (if you will). I'm proud of my sister for graduating college this June, or proud of my favorite hockey team for winning the Stanley Cup, but surely this "pride" is not the same as that evil which is condemned at every (religious) turn?nuclear.kellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18218956177203199577noreply@blogger.com